Curse

suiraCLAW · Nov 03, 2006, 09:31 AM // 09:31

Quote:

All the new NF mesmer elites sucketh mightily.

One exception: Enchanter's Conundrum is somewhat usefull in adrenal spikes...

[skill]Enchanter's Conundrum[/skill]

Basically, with fast casting, you can use enchanter's conundrum (-> shatter enchantment) -> shatter delusion for 200-250 armor ignoring damage (offcourse, this is quite conditional).

Dragannia · Nov 03, 2006, 10:32 AM // 10:32

You might as well use Spiritual Pain. Much more effective, and frees up an Elite slot. And not quite as conditional, though it deals about 50 less damage.

suiraCLAW · Nov 03, 2006, 11:01 AM // 11:01

Quote:

You might as well use Spiritual Pain. Much more effective, and frees up an Elite slot. And not quite as conditional, though it deals about 50 less damage.

Actually, with decent fast casting you can do enchanter's conundrum -> spiritual pain -> shatter delusions...

around · Nov 03, 2006, 11:06 AM // 11:06

Or you could just take Shatter Enchantment+Glyph of Renewal and get 200-odd damage that way.

Dragannia · Nov 03, 2006, 11:14 AM // 11:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by suiraCLAW

Actually, with decent fast casting you can do enchanter's conundrum -> spiritual pain -> shatter delusions...

But then you're wasting an Elite (outside of spiking, Enchanter's Conundrum is no great Elite), and you could take something like Expel for utility, or Surge for pressure, and etc. Spiritual Pain is one skill, vs Enchanters and Shatter, which has an Elite as well as taking up more space.

Lightbulb · Nov 07, 2006, 09:08 PM // 21:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodo The Extinct

This build is awesome. I love defensive builds.

Do you mind if I show it to my guild? I would give you credit, of course.

lol go for it mate! I would love to think of someone using the build because my guild are taking some convincing...

I am starting to think you are all right about the wards though. I will give it some more thought and post an updated version at some point.

Thanks to everyone for their input.

moriz · Nov 13, 2006, 06:01 PM // 18:01

of course we need some convincing, lightbulb, because the one posted in our guild forums look very different than the one posted here.

Lightbulb · Nov 15, 2006, 10:33 AM // 10:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

of course we need some convincing, lightbulb, because the one posted in our guild forums look very different than the one posted here.

They should be the same unless i screwed up the link...

Thom Bangalter · Nov 15, 2006, 11:10 AM // 11:10

drop expel for surge because surge is powerful in both vod and during spikes. Put a purge signet on one of your eles to help combat hex heavy teams. You might want to slide holy veil on a monk as well, because you really only have one way to combat hex teams which are being run in the meta right now on some parts of the ladder. These teams generally have a signet of humility, which they will use on your expel every time it's recharged, so having non-elite ways to get rid of hexes is very strong. I'd drop a deep freeze on one of your flagstand eles to slide in the purge. I've been wanting to run it on my flagging build but my bar is tight so I can't squeeze it in.

Additionally, on your runner build I'd reccomend storm djinn's haste instead of windborne, because other teams are going to wind up beating you on flag running because storm djinn's haste is so superior to windborne. I'd also reccomend dropping orb from the runner (you dont' really need 3 orbs) to add freezing gust as a snare, because it's excellent in skirmish situations. Spec your water to meet the breakpoint for a 5 second snare on it, you only have 1 second of downtime between casts and it's very strong even at a 5 second duration.

Seamus Finn · Nov 16, 2006, 09:04 PM // 21:04

I would lose energy burn from your mesmer. Whats teh point of A) One e denial skill and B) One edenial skill in a meta where paragons = infinate energy? If you LOVE expel, at least bring spiritual pain because it can punish warder campers which would be a pain for your warrior. I would also bring esurge for some of teh same reasons over expel, but if you want ot play defensively expel is a fine skill as mesmers tend to do well without an elite.

Thom Bangalter · Nov 17, 2006, 10:57 AM // 10:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seamus Finn

I would lose energy burn from your mesmer. Whats teh point of A) One e denial skill and B) One edenial skill in a meta where paragons = infinate energy? If you LOVE expel, at least bring spiritual pain because it can punish warder campers which would be a pain for your warrior. I would also bring esurge for some of teh same reasons over expel, but if you want ot play defensively expel is a fine skill as mesmers tend to do well without an elite.

It functions very well as an adreno-spike skill. Expel is garbage.

moriz · Nov 17, 2006, 03:09 PM // 15:09

we've pretty much decided that storm djinn's haste is overrated. my guild's current build involves a lot of movement, and since we can slap windborne speed on whoever needs it, it is vastly superior to storm djinn's haste for our needs. we're not so worried about out running other flagrunners, since we do very little 8v8 headsmashing at the flagstand. when we cap, we generally follow a "harass and defend" strategy by keeping the other flagrunner occupied with something else.

Dragannia · Nov 18, 2006, 12:24 AM // 00:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

It functions very well as an adreno-spike skill. Expel is garbage.

Mind explaining that?

Thom Bangalter · Nov 18, 2006, 02:21 AM // 02:21

You're tying up an elite slot on your mesmer with an incredibly niche skill. Furthermore, just about every team I've seen that runs significant hex pressure brings signet of humility, rendering the skill even more useless. That's why I prefer non-elite hex removal like purge signet or covert. Mostly purge though. I also mostly prefer it on a character that can regain energy quickly, and can do so from below 0 energy (eles).

As Squidget has noted elsewhere, balanced builds need AOE pressure to help at vod because just about every team is running paragons, so you need something to kill archers with at vod.

Dragannia · Nov 18, 2006, 04:31 AM // 04:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

You're tying up an elite slot on your mesmer with an incredibly niche skill. Furthermore, just about every team I've seen that runs significant hex pressure brings signet of humility, rendering the skill even more useless. That's why I prefer non-elite hex removal like purge signet or covert. Mostly purge though. I also mostly prefer it on a character that can regain energy quickly, and can do so from below 0 energy (eles).

As Squidget has noted elsewhere, balanced builds need AOE pressure to help at vod because just about every team is running paragons, so you need something to kill archers with at vod.

A Dom Mesmer, while benefiting from an Elite, like all classes, relies on it much less than a regular character. The vast majority of Elites used by Domination Mesmers don't add too much to them, such as Surge. Think of it as a sword Warrior, other classes don't get extremely good stand-alone skills like Blackout and Diversion regularly.

Signet of Humility also has a slow cast time, which is interrupt-able. Not a very good answer, but random Shocks and KDs and other interrupts work better than you think, even without coordination. It also doesn't stack with its recharge, unless using Mantra of Inscriptions, which then doesn't allow them to use Distortion or Persistence effectively. Chaining Signets will work on a good team with good communication, however, but then the real issue is the tactical variance of the game; many times you'll be splitting. If called upThings like Purge and Convert have long recharges and long cast times, and are much too 'overkill.' If your half your team is hexed with 2 or 3 hexes, Purge and Convert aren't going to be doing much- they'll clean one or two characters. And if Signet of Humility were as widely used as you say, they can easily render BL or Divert ineffective and easily destroy your long-casting hexes.

Don't get me wrong, Convert and Purge are good skills. But they don't render a good Elite like Expel 'useless.' In my experience, Expel with two or three Inspires can keep a team clean of most hex teams.